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Extraordinary Jobs for Ordinary People

Extraordinary Jobs for Ordinary People

Issue 5 - October 28, 2002

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- IN THIS ISSUE -

News and Announcements
Feature Article: This is Your Captain Speaking...
Interview with Senior Continental Pilot Captain David R. Hughes - Part One
Q & A: Omitted this week because the feature is LONG!
Links and biz ops

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LATEST NEWS:

Hi guys,

I'm running late this week because my feature article has been a challenge! I had a really great interview last Thursday with Captain David Hughes, who is a senior pilot with Continental Airlines. David has that a lovely rich deep voice that must instill confidence in his passengers as he makes his speech over the intercom, "This is your captain speaking..." However, he also speaks very fast, and transcribing the 90 minutes of tape has taken me a while! Thank you, David, you are a regular font of knowledge and wisdom! Part one is in this issue, Part two will come out next week.

Meanwhile, we've been making plans to build an ark. Today it looks like we may see the sun for the first time in a couple of weeks. Yes, we've caught up on a lot of rain we needed, but why does it have to come all at once?

I welcome submissions, so if you know of a fun way to making a living, or want to offer innovative job hunting tips, send them in to by e-mail. Be sure to include your byline so you can get full credit. And of course include links to your web site.

I had an e-mail from Leonard this past week, thanks! He told me a little about himself, but I want to know more about the rest of you! Your comments and requests will help to shape this newsletter. Let me know what you want me to write about, and I'll do my best to get you the most up to date information!

Tell your friends to subscribe FREE at www.kpdavis.com, the more the
merrier!

To unsubscribe,you may follow the instructions at the end of the letter, or you can send a blank message to me, kim@kpdavis.com, with "unsubscribe" in the subject line.

Have a great week, and as Mark Train said:

"Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions.
Small people always do that, but the really great make you
feel that you, too, can become great."

---- Kim :)

Feature Article: This is Your Captain Speaking...
Interview with Senior Continental Pilot Captain David R. Hughes (Part One)

by Kim Davis

On their website, www.continental.com, Continental Airlines has this to say about themselves: "Continental Airlines is the world's sixth-largest airline and has more than 2,100 daily departures. With 122 domestic and 90 international destinations, Continental has the broadest global route network of any U.S. airline, including extensive service throughout the Americas, Europe and Asia. Continental has hubs serving New York, Houston, Cleveland and Guam, and carries approximately 45 million passengers per year on the newest jet fleet among major U.S. airlines. With 48,000 employees, Continental is one of the '100 Best Companies to Work For in America.' Fortune ranked Continental the No. 2 Most Admired Global Airline and No. 30 Most Admired Global Company in March 2002. For more company information, visit continental.com."

Last week I had the opportunity to visit with Captain David Hughes, a senior pilot who has been with Continental since 1982, when they merged with Texas International. David shared his experience and offered lots of information for anyone considering flying as a career. David also shared his thoughts about some current events affecting airline pilots since September 11.

October 24, 2002

KIM: When did you start flying?

DAVID: I started learning to fly when I was 19, a junior in College. I studied History and Political Science, two totally useless degrees. I was going to be a teacher or a lawyer.

KIM: You did your flight training as a civilian. What are your thoughts about civil vs. military training?

DAVID: Both ways train you well but they're radically different. If we don't have a war going on, getting into a military flight program is hard because there isn't much turnover. The military advantage if you're good enough and you meet all the criteria when they need pilots is that you get exceptional training in heavy airplanes with turbine engines. You don't actually get much flight time in the military. You get training free, basically.

Civilian-wise, you pay for training and you can go however fast you want to. You get inter-regional system knowledge and learn how to make a plane pay for itself because you work as a flight instructor, a charter, commuter, or corporate pilot, all of which gives you knowledge that the airlines need for what they actually do.

KIM: So what's it going to cost a young person for all this training as a civilian? Presumably a university degree is wanted?

DAVID: Mandatory. It doesn't matter what the degree is in, just some sort of Bachelor's Degree. When the airlines are hiring there are 4,000 to 5,000 applications for every 5 jobs. A college education and eyesight are ways to filter out some of the applicants. They just don't have time to look through all the applications. Having a degree does not mean that you know how to fly an airplane any better, it just means that you had the initiative to stay in college long enough to get one. It is an indicator of how sincere you are. Typically a pilot is a very driven person, a "type A" personality.

In terms of how much it costs - it's changed dramatically since I did it, I think today a private pilots license is going to cost you $3,000.

It teaches you to fly an airplane like you drive your car. It allows you to fly an airplane from A to B. You need to satisfy the insurance qualifications at the place where you rent the airplane, unless you own your own plane. All you can do is fly a plane. You cannot charge for that. You cannot fly for hire. You can go buy an airplane and fly it any time you want. You can't charge your friends.

KIM: Can you then get a job in the industry and get some on the job
training for free?

DAVID: When I was a kid that's what you did. A lot of kids went and worked the ramp, or as dispatchers, anything where they could just be around thinking that the owner would give them a discount. Now, washing airplanes doesn't pay any more than mowing yards. It probably pays less, $5 an hour or $6 an hour. The guy fueling the plane gets minimum wage.

Back then a two-seat airplane cost $12 per hour to rent including fuel. Today that same airplane is $45 per hour. The private license is just a stepping-stone to your commercial license. It requires you to have 35-40 hours of flight time not counting flight school or written exam.

To be a commercial pilot your flight time goes to 160-200 hours. That's a lot of time in an airplane. You'll be learning more advanced maneuvers, and getting experience flying cross-country.

KIM: Does the commercial license teach you to fly different types of
planes?

DAVID: You're still in a small Cessna 150 type plane, a prop plane. The numbers just multiply out times 200 hours. What's that? 9-10 grand just to rent the plane? Not counting the instruction. 30 years ago, I got paid $7 per hour as a flight instructor. Today the instructor gets $40-50 per hour.

For the private license out of that 35-40 hours of flight time you will do 7-8 hours solo. The rest of it will be "dual instruction." So you'll fly with an instructor for about 30-32 hours, which amounts to another $1300-1400.

The commercial license, which is requires 160-200 hours flight time, will take a year or a year and a half, and will enable you to fly an airplane for hire. We're still only talking about a two-seater airplane. For every airplane you want to fly you pay an instructor to train you on that airplane for 2 to 10 hours depending on the airplane. Then you can rent that airplane provided you meet all the insurance requirements.

So far we've just talked about training for the government, we haven't started talking about insurance requirements and restrictions put on you by the flight schools.

You can get a private license at the age of 17. I know a young man who just turned 17 and got his private license 4 days later. Now he will start working on instructor rating at the same time he is working on his instrument flight rating.

Private and Commercial pilots fly under visual flight rules. In other words you have to be able to see outside and remain clear of clouds. With instrument flight rules you can be in total clouds, snow, rain, fog, whatever. That's another 40 hours, and until you have a commercial instrument rating nobody will hire you. That's all dual instruction. Your instructor for this costs $70 per hour plus the $40 per hour for the plane, so you're up to $110 per hour. Once you have the commercial instrument, you can actually fly for hire, but still nobody's going to hire you because you only have 200-250 hours of flight time. Insurance requires that you have 500 hours of flight time.

Typically what you do next is get your instructor's license, which is another 40 hours of dual instruction. This gets you your instructor's certificate and you've accumulated 220-250 hours. The school that you got your instructor's certificate at may hire you, because you trained through them, so their insurance would let you teach.

Anytime you have an instructor in the plane he is considered the "Pilot in Command," so when you are teaching you get to log all that flight time as "Pilot in Command". Now you have 40 hours on your private license, 120 hours on your commercial license.

So just to be a commercial pilot with enough time to be able to apply for a job at an airline they want about 500 hours, a college degree, and they have other requirements for cross-country time and pilot in command time added to that flight time.

KIM: So what does "cross-country" involve?

DAVID: Anything that takes you from point A to something that's farther than 50 miles away from your departure point when you land. Flying over the top of it and coming back does not count. You've got to land at different airports to gain the experience.

At one time when I was trying to be an Airline Pilot in the late 60's, 500 hours was pretty much the standard required minimum time for most airlines. They would break that down into cross-country time, instrument time, and P.I.C. time. Today Continental's minimum application time is 1500 hours flying. You might get there working for a corporation or flying Charters or whatever.

KIM: Isn't there a lot more corporate work now than there used to be?

DAVID: There is HERE (Houston). When I was learning to fly there was no corporate work on the west coast. Virtually none. Here there is a substantial amount of corporate work. Back then there were no express airplanes hiring young kids. They hadn't even been invented at that time. So that's a way to go.

Charter flying, you sit around and wait for somebody to call you. I got a lot of calls from people wanting to go to Las Vegas. I ran charters out of Palm Springs for four years and I got to fly all the pretty people. Red Skelton used to stuff his cigars in all of the ashtrays. He never smoked them; he just chewed on them and stuck them in there.

Part of the charter pilot's job is to clean, vacuum, wash, and wax the airplane, act as dispatcher, secretary, and cargo arranger. Then you go out and promote the business. So you do lots of different things to try and make the airplane pay for itself. That's the reason I say the civilian guy has that background and expertise that the military guy lacks.

Typically civilian pilots are going to have a lot of time. When I got hired at Texas International I had almost 8000 hours of flight time. I had a transport pilot rating, which is the highest license and I had a Masters degree. A typical military pilot coming out will have a little over 2000 hours and that's it. They have to have a degree to get into the military [flight program]. But their flight time is less because they don't fly as often as we do.

As a commercial pilot, a flight instructor, a charter pilot and a commuter pilot, I'd fly 3 to 7 hours a day 5 or 6 days a week, and I did that for 10 years. The military guys, if they're fighter pilots, fly one 1-hour trip once or twice a week if they're not in a war situation. If they're in a war situation they might fly one hour a day, but the airplanes don't fly very far or very long.

KIM: So the military solution is for somebody who just doesn't have the cash.

DAVID: If you can get into the flight program. If you can't get in, you've already signed your commitment and you're stuck in the military and you never get to fly.

The ideal guy for the airlines is a guy who spent 5 - 7 years in the military, came out, and went into the civilian world for a year or two to understand what it takes to make an airplane fly.

KIM: With all these corporate Lear Jets around now days, wouldn't that be a good place for a good place for a military pilot to go?

DAVID: Sure, if there is a job. If the airline industry is furloughing, the Corporations are going to hire the airline pilots on furlough because they want their experience, but then again they might not want to hire that furloughed airline pilot because they don't want him to go back to the airline after they've paid to train him That costs them money. Even I would have to go to school and learn how to fly a Lear Jet. I haven't flown one of those for 25 years. The company picks up the tab.

KIM: How long would that sort of training take?

DAVID: Training on a new airplane takes about 6 weeks, with 5 - 10 days on systems in flight school. You should be able to drive and build the entire airplane. You have to have knowledge of the hydraulics system, the fuel system, the pressurization system, the height control system, the engines, and the emergency positions. Then you are put into a box that looks like the cockpit called a flight-training device. It's not the same as a simulator, it just shows you where all the switches are. So you sit in the flight-training device and learn where everything is. That takes 2-5 days. Then you get into the simulator for 8 - 14 sessions to get a type rating added to your license. To fly a jet you have to have what's called a type rating on your license. So besides your license saying "Airline Transport Pilot" you will have a list of the airplanes' required types. Mine says DC9, MD80, 737, and triple 7.

KIM: So it's a big deal going from airline to airline because they don't fly the same planes.

DAVID: Right. Nobody goes from airline to airline. When you're hired at Continental Airlines, for example, including the furloughed guys there are about 6000 pilots working for them. I've been there 25 years, and I am currently number 72. If you got hired tomorrow, you'd be number 6001.

KIM: So the whole system is based on seniority and you wouldn't want to lose your place in line.

DAVID: For us there are positions on the airplane that pay more. Second Officer, First Officer, and Captain. If you're a captain on a small airline, like say Northwest, you may not want to give up that Captain's position for a Second Officer's position on a bigger airline because you'd get paid less, and you'd just have to work your way up in seniority again. It could take 20 years.

KIM: Are you familiar with the pay scale between airlines? Does one airline pay pretty much the same as another?

DAVID: No. Typically in the union except for Continental, most guys get paid pretty much the same. Contracts are mostly 2-3 years then you renegotiate the contract. At Continental, we signed our first big contract 5 years ago. We're under negotiations right now. It's very bad timing. Five years ago, our negotiations brought us very close to industry standard, but to get close, we gave the company a 5-year deal. In that time frame every other major airline has had at least one and in some cases two contracts. I'm very senior at Continental, I fly the biggest airplane they fly, and I make $130 per hour less than United, and Delta for example.

We get paid on the size of airplane and the type of flying we do. So domestic flying at Southwest, which is all they do, probably competes with Delta and United and Northwest for flying a 737 around the United States.

Southwest pilots get paid differently than we do. Because we get paid by the hour or the minute. They get paid by the trip length. So they are always running at breakneck speed. They are racing through there as fast as they can go. They taxi hard with fast turns. I have never ridden with them but my guess is that their flying is not as comfortable as mine is, because I am not motivated by trip length. I get paid by the minute. The Southwest pilot is going to try and get as many trips in during the month as he can. So, although they're paid differently, their gross pay for the amount of time they put in the air, because we all fly basically 80 hours a month, will be very close to what a Continental, America West, Northwest guy makes flying a 737.

KIM: That 80 hours per month, is that just time in the air? Then you've got what, an hour on either side of the flight?

DAVID: Typically you are at the airport 3 hours for every hour you get to fly, whether you're flying turns or you're flying 2 or 3 or 4-day trips. For me, I'm at the airport 2 hours before an international flight. I'm looking over the weather, evaluating the dispatch release, maintaining the airplane, loading up the airplane, and pre-flighting the airplane to make sure it's safe.

KIM: So if you're flying to London, for example, you have how many different choices of routes?

DAVID: Well the company will pick those out. We used to do our own flight plans. The computer can do that now so much more accurately than we can. You know the winds and the weather that will be involved, but from here to our coast out point, somewhere in the Canadian Maritimes, there are a dozen different ways you can fly. Once we get to the coast out points going to Europe there are 6 traffic lanes going that direction the last 12 hours of the day, and 6 more going the other way during the first 12 hours of the day, and they move them every day depending on the winds. They are all unidirectional. All European flying goes east sometime between 3 and 8 at night, so you arrive next day between 7 in the morning and noon. You never meet each other over the Atlantic. Based on the winds and weather they make 6 new ones coming back this direction.

KIM: This is presumably coordinated all around the world? Who does that?

DAVID: It is coordinated between all the airlines in the world through Gander and Shannon, which is Shannon Prestwick/ Control Centers. They get inputs from all the airlines of what they plan on doing for the day. They get there about 3 hours ahead so the computers spit out models and then they send that to Shannon and Gander and they compute these airways going westward. [*Note: for more information visit www.airtrafficcafe.com] So you have your actual 12 hours of time and they may move north and south depending on the winds and the weather. Every 5 miles across, every 1000 feet up and down, set 60 miles apart.

KIM: I read that Southwest Airlines was not losing money and Continental is…

DAVID: ...We're losing less money. Oh yea, we're losing money. The only carrier that was not Southwest that made money last quarter was Alaska Air. Northwest and us were the least losers. We lost 37 or 39 million dollars for the quarter, and I think Northwest lost 36 million. It sounds like a lot then you talk about American losing $929 million and United losing $889 million. We think that yes it's hurting us we can't afford to continue these losses, but we're not anywhere near anyone else's. But it's still not a good time to be negotiating contracts.

Right now there are 10,000 pilots on the street when there were not enough a year ago. Our industry is very cyclical. When the economy is good we do wonderful. The first thing that we lose is the business travel when a recession hits and the airlines start losing great gobs of money right prior to that. Businesses start collapsing or putting restrictions on travel. Lets say you flew out here to see me and you were going to fly back today. Well the company says you're going to stay there till Monday so you get the overnight stay. The airlines have always lived off of the businessman, and when the businessman stops flying because his business is hurting, then we're hurting.

Airlines have always been very predatory and we will not lose a fraction of a percentage of their niche in the market to another carrier and they will sell their product for less in order to keep flying.

KIM: What's your favorite part of the job? The money? The time?

DAVID: It's the greatest job in the world. All of that. I mean most of us who love our job love flying an airplane. It is a great thing. I mean it is a lot of fun to do. There is a great deal of pride and a great deal of responsibility.

KIM: Do you get to meet a lot of people?

DAVID: I did, but typically pilots don't. They lock us in now where I used to greet every passenger who got on and off my airplane when I was flying MD80's. The cockpit door was right there as you got on the plane. Now there is a full First Class section between the door and the cockpit. So I would have to trip over the passengers or be in the way of loading the airplane, so it's just not as convenient and we're dealing with international people who often don't speak English, so you don't get to meet the people. But the "up" to me is you get paid a very good sum of money eventhough we're underpaid by Continental, it is still a very, very comfortable income.

KIM: You're still making more than the guy that's doing 9 to 5.

DAVID: Most of times. I mean there are guys who work themselves hard, like corporate heads. But Doctors, Lawyers, V.P.'s, Presidents of Companies are educated similar to what we are, and we are paid commensurate with them. The time off is one of the bigger pluses. After 25 years I typically work 3 days a week. So I go to work at say 4:00 in the afternoon on Monday and I come home at say 4:30 in the afternoon on Wednesday, and I'll do that 4 times a month because the flying is 20 hours over there and 20 hours back and that's 80 hours a month.

KIM: Do you have a lot of leeway as far as creating your own schedule?

DAVID: The company puts out a line of time. On my airplane there are 33 lines of time and there are 52 captains so if you're one of those 33 guys you pick them in seniority order. Number 1 guy gets his first choice. This month I got it. I can't believe I got it. I only flew 9 days this month, and I got paid for 80 hours. But a junior pilot who just hired on at Continental flying a 737 could do 5 or 6 take offs in a16 hour day, 4 days a week and you'll sit for an hour or two every place you go. I could work for 16 hours, but it's only going to be one leg, say from here to Tokyo. The new guy will work certainly every weekend, but also every holiday, every child's birthday, miss parent-teacher conferences. So until you get senior enough you don't make the choice. You don't get to move up just because you've been there 10 years. Seniority only comes with the airline growing or people retiring. That's one of the down sides of the job.

KIM: Any other negatives?

DAVID: Some people don't like not sleeping in their own bed every night. I mean my best friend took his own pillow with him every night. Some people don't like staying in hotels. They don't like getting up and having coffee with some strange people. Some people don't like being gone from home or they hate not knowing what they're going to be doing month in and month out. I mean I don't know what I'm going to be doing in December. I barely know what November is going to be like. I don't care.

And retirement is mandatory at the age of 60.

KIM: If you were still married, and home with kids, it would be different, maybe?

DAVID: I was home, I mean I've just been divorced 4 years and my kids are young enough. My son is one of the best baseball players in the state of Texas and from January through November I bid every month's schedule around his baseball so I could be there either coaching or instructing or watching his team play ball. And you can do that. You're not there all the time, but you can arrange your schedule. Tomorrow is the open window for me to move my schedule around for November. If I needed to be off this weekend for a tournament for him I could do that. Even if I couldn't hold it or bid for it off I could try and trade for it.

KIM: What about the ability to go places without spending too much money?

DAVID: That's a misnomer. We have passes. After 25 years I don't pay a penny. When you're new you pay $10 per leg. It sounds like a great deal. I could take you to New Orleans for lunch tomorrow. The problem is that since we're non-revenue passengers, we go after all revenue passengers, and our load factor on Continental is around 77%. That is system wide every airplane, all day, every day. Now think how many people are going from here to Midland, maybe 5 out of 100 people, as opposed to New Orleans, San Francisco, Miami, or Orlando, which are 100% full all day every day. So you can't go. [Unless you want to go to Midland...]

When I took my parents up to Ohio in July we got there o.k. It took me 5 flights, a day and a half, to get home. So is that a benefit? Yes I can get on an airplane if there's a seat, but if there's no seat you don't get on. That's not what I went to work at an airline for. I love the time off. I love the pay scale. I love the fact that I get paid to fly the biggest, fanciest airplane in the world. All the bells and whistles. First computer designed airplane ever. They pay me to do that, and I love it.

I'm home at Christmas, because I'm senior enough to be there, but airlines fly every day of the year. Used to be on Christmas and Thanksgiving they would cut back 30 or 40% of the flights, but not anymore because everybody travels on those days thinking they can get a cheaper fare.

***

And that's the end of part one. If you want to read part two, you'll have to wait till next week. Phew!

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Good luck on job hunt, and let me know when you land one!

Kim ;-)

Kim Davis
kim@kpdavis.com
www.kpdavis.com
www.yachtie.net

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